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NFS: Case Study This forum will be used to discuss future ideas and concepts, and weigh the benefits and disadvantages of each, which will provide a quality detailed list to forward to the Developers.

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Old 01-01-2009   #1
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Default Case Study #12 - Vehicle Types

This question has been risen from times to times. So it's time to put it through here. Moving in a different fashion compared with the other case study topics, this one will need a much bigger input from each poster for a valid discussion.

What's your opinion about adding these kind of vehicles to Need For Speed game series:

- SUV's (example 1, 2, 3 and 4)
- Motorcycles (example 1, 2, 3 and 4)
- Sport Trucks (example 1, 2, 3 and 4)
- Sport wagons (example 1, 2, 3 and 4)

Please, list your reasons on why each type would or would not be a good addition to nfs.
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Old 01-01-2009   #2
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SUVs- Heavy, and modifiable - Potential usage.
Motorbikes - Have been done in other games, however NFS and police ramming, bikes serve as the weak links. - if you hit one, you are immediately busted?
Sport Trucks - Ram SRT10, Ford Lightning, etc. Fast, competitive, and can hold their own ground against cars. With their own set of customizable parts (light bars/pushbars, racks, lift kits, drop kits, airbag suspensions)
Sport Wagons - as in juiced up station wagons or the similar.. could be fun.?
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Old 01-13-2009   #3
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bump for awareness
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Old 01-13-2009   #4
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SUVs - I don't particularly care for them. But if they must be in the game, I'd prefer they give us something reasonably lightweight.

Bikes - Yeah, they wouldn't exactly be able to ram police cars, and two wheels probably won't grip corners exactly as well as four (though bikes will have far less inertia, mostly offsetting the grip difference), but they'll accelerate quite well due to good power-to-weight ratios. Make the game so that there's more emphasis on outrunning the cops rather than bashing them till they stop (and make it so that ramming cop cars damages your vehicle too as well as slow you down), and then put the bikes in.

Sports Trucks - I think they can be put in. Some of them are actually fast.

Sports Wagons - I guess they could put in a few of the wagons that don't already have a sedan version.
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Old 01-13-2009   #5
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Adding new vehicle types might be OK, but I would like to add that UG2 had
SUVs and they failed miserably. In fact, so miserably you didn't have to
do any SUV races to pass the game.

Motorcycles can be cool if done properly (semi realistic handling and physics).
I agree with OD211 - there should be a shift from crashing into the cops to avoiding
them, because it would be impossible to shake them off on a bike.
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Old 01-13-2009   #6
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SUV:
The way i see, looking after the last SUVs on the market, they would fit in if we were able to choose sport oriented SUVs instead of bling and offroad ones. Like Sinister named, they are heavy, and have a good assortment of tuning options. Blocking them with police cars would be a very hard task, let alone stopping them at roadblocks. Still, shaking the police off due their overall speed and maneuverability would be a problem. Lets say, chases could last longer than expected with them.

Bikes:
While i would do enjoy having bikes on NFS (I sure enjoyed them on Burnout Paradise), dealing with the police would be a huge problem. Whereas in the real world that cop cars can't ram then, or make full closed roadblocks (as the minimal crash on a bike could kill the pilot), NFS doesn't exactly follow those rules, anything that touched your bike would definitely send you to the ground, and you would mostly likely be arrested after that. Not cool. Also, the upgrades would be a bit stale, as nowadays, all interesting bikes are pretty close to the Class AA and AAA vehicles when it comes to performance.

Sport Trucks:

Definably in, to me they are as good as cars if done right


Sport Wagons:

Same as above, just remember the RS4 wagon and what it can do...
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Old 01-13-2009   #7
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SUVs - Yes please! But this time, NO BLINGMOBILES(the only Hummer I would allow[face it; the door was opened with the suggestion of the Benz G-class, the H1's German equivalent] would be the H3 Alpha[smallest model + the almighty/legendary GM LS-series smallblock V8 should = fun]). SUVs such as the Grand Cherokee SRT-8, Range Rover Sport, Cayenne and Trailblazer SS(it was Nurburgring developed, and again, LS-series smallblock...) demand inclusion in racing games and would sure be fun in pursuits.

Bikes - the aforementioned difficulties in pursuits without a major overhaul to their mechanics could prove bikes hard to implement. But then again, I just got an idea: how about when the cops do succeed in forcefully separating you from your bike, as a cutscene shows shows you being loaded into the ambulance that you'll most assuredly need, you're given the option of accepting the arrest and impound strike, or initiating a High Stakes challenge. Accepting the challenge would then show another brief cutscene of you commandeering the ambulance and continuing the pursuit at a heat level higher than you would achieve in your own vehicle; if you can evade, another cutscene shows your ambulance breaking through the wall of the impound lot and retrieving your bike. Now you're on your bike at this new higher heat level; evade once more and you'll receive a marker for a free vehicle. Fail at any point, and your bike goes to the crusher(High Stakes challenges for other vehicle types might work as well, on the condition that your tires are intact and you still have some nitrous left[to break free of capture; the ambulance bit is for bikes only]). Also, let's see some choppers as well(they're two wheeled muscle...)

Sport Trucks - Uhh, yes, and for the same reasons as SUVs...

Sportwagons - We've already got hatchbacks, why not wagons, especially since they're cooler...
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Old 01-13-2009   #8
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Well. SUVs, if chosen properly (and having a separate class!) could make a sound addition to Need for Speed - same as eventual trucks. Especially if the player had to ballance between the on- and off-road capabilities, it would be hard to get the balance right - and very good!
Estates/Wagons are fine, too - as long as they remain in classes similar to their sedan/saloon equivalents.
Roadsters/Cabriolets/Spiders should get back in the game aswell.
As to motorcycles, I'm not that keen and i feel that cars are main focus of NFS, and should remain so.
Police pursuits should be more realistic, because a SUV would just smash everything on the existing pursuit's engine.


Plus we should get rid of this Tier nonsense, and Exotic/Muscle/Tuner rubbish - races classified by power to mass relation or engine capacity AND maybe the market class - which would make the choice of pricier, heavier cars justified (BMW M6) - like more slow and chilled races (the formation of a column in a race breaking just when the cops come in and stuff) like in HP2, with less tense music (i mean creating less tension), police working like "county police", not "I need code 3 help now" militaristic kinda stuff - Grand Touring! GT means Grand Tourer, and that's what I've enjoyed in HP2, long, comfortable (I believe, cos i dont sit in the bloody car ) journeys - this should be introduced.
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Old 01-13-2009   #9
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The Only Problem I see with Bikes in an NFS title is this.

The Evil Rubberbanding Catchup AI that cannot be out run no matter what vehicles are involved and/or no matter what you do. Im Sorry but when you have Supersonic Police SUV's keeping up with a Buggotti or a McClearen F1 and wipeing the player out while being immune to wipeouts themselves. Well that kind of takes the fun out of it.

A Biker wouldn't stand a chance with the Current AI, which is unlikely to ever change.
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Old 01-13-2009   #10
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I'm all for bikes.

Among all these categories I probably care less about the trucks because they look a bit ugly and their only real purpose is customisation (SUVs are heavier and better racers). To implement trucks in a way they'd have their own advantages against the other cars, we would have to get creative.

But, in the old days of hotrodding, there were a lot of modified pickups which could keep up with cars, so anything is possible.

One category I'd love to see is full-size sedans like BMW 760Li.
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Old 01-13-2009   #11
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SUVs: Absolutely. Vehicles like the Porsche Cayenne and Jeep SRT beat the pants off the hot hatches that are being put in current games, so there's no reason they shouldn't have a place in Need for Speed games. They also open up some new possibilities for tuning, since many aspects of car and SUV tuning are very different.

Motorcycles: I'd love to say yes, but the whole style of NFS racing (smash the cops, sideswipe opponents, etc) doesn't really apply to cycles. With the driver exposed, more driver movements would be required, and you would essentially die and DNF in the event of a crash. And how do you drift on a bike, anyway?

Trucks: Yes, for basically the same reasons as SUVs. Treated right, trucks can have every bit as much performance potential as cars can, and a wider array of tuning than SUVs could be offered.

Wagons: Are aerodynamically superior to sedans, and I imagine they would be more rigid. Theoretically, wagons can have better performance than sedans.
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Old 01-13-2009   #12
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Quote:
And how do you drift on a bike, anyway?
You can't (although, from what I know, professional bike racers do countersteer around corners, so I guess you could call it four wheel drifting?). But if the game must have a drift mode, then they can fix the problem by making said mode only available to something with four wheels.
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Old 01-13-2009   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OD211 View Post
You can't (although, from what I know, professional bike racers do countersteer around corners, so I guess you could call it four wheel drifting?). But if the game must have a drift mode, then they can fix the problem by making said mode only available to something with four wheels.
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Old 01-13-2009   #14
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You have just proved me wrong. That was an epic vid, OZ.
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Old 01-14-2009   #15
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So, no one has anything to say about my "high stakes" challenge idea?...
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Old 01-14-2009   #16
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It's imaginative & attractive, but... somehow I don't see EA implementing such a concept any time soon. It might pose a danger of making the gameplay too complex & consequently overly interesting, which would keep us playing the game for years. And EA can't let that happen - if they're determined to continue the tradition of rushed 'Xmas releases', that is.

Actually, I find the idea cool enough to argue about the 2-wheel vehicle limitation you proposed. Then again, I'm biased towards high stakes-based gameplay elements.

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Old 01-14-2009   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMantis View Post
SUVs: Absolutely. Vehicles like the Porsche Cayenne and Jeep SRT beat the pants off the hot hatches that are being put in current games, so there's no reason they shouldn't have a place in Need for Speed games.
Only in a straight line. SUVs are HORRIBLE around corners. They're too high and their suspensions aren't calibrated for curvy roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMantis View Post
Wagons: Are aerodynamically superior to sedans, and I imagine they would be more rigid. Theoretically, wagons can have better performance than sedans.
Wagons are way heavier and never beat their sedan counterparts at anything other than luggage capacity.

In fact having wagons is completely unnecessary unless it's a car only available in wagon form (Dodge Magnum, Audi RS2). Or we could introduce different body styles just for preference (like NFSPU).
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Old 01-14-2009   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Mac View Post
It's imaginative & attractive, but... somehow I don't see EA implementing such a concept any time soon. It might pose a danger of making the gameplay too complex & consequently overly interesting, which would keep us playing the game for years. And EA can't let that happen - if they're determined to continue the tradition of rushed 'Xmas releases', that is.
Hopefully that bass ackwards thinking dies with BlackBox.
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Old 01-14-2009   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Mac View Post
It's imaginative & attractive, but... somehow I don't see EA implementing such a concept any time soon. It might pose a danger of making the gameplay too complex & consequently overly interesting, which would keep us playing the game for years. And EA can't let that happen - if they're determined to continue the tradition of rushed 'Xmas releases', that is.
With this thinking, any good idea could be retracted. It's like, well we could add more new things, but people might like it too much.

As for the topic:
I'd be down with SUV's. Not a huge bike fan but I wouldn't mind it, as long as the cop part got cleared up.
The last two work as well.
I personally like Grimey's creativity on the topic. I'd play it.

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Old 01-15-2009   #20
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I wouldn't worry too much about bikes being questionable / inadequate getaway vehicles. If their implementation in GTA SA is anything to go by, they come incredibly handy in tight spots due to their size & - as someone has already mentioned - superior acceleration. Remember that disabling cop cars is encouraged rather than essential in NFS (and at the very worst you still have pursuit breakers to resort to - whose collapse I'm sure wouldn't affect the 'biker'), thus you'd have the advantage of employing tighter & more spectacular traffic, cop car & obstacle dodging techniques.

Developing an animated biker character might also - hopefully - lead to the much anticipated return of convertibles in the NFS series.

My usual (yawn!) concept here: if vehicle classification decisions were left to the user, we would be able to come up with satisfactorily challenging set-ups incorporating either 1) a consequently meaningful line-up of opponents belonging to a specific category or 2) conversely, a motley crew encompassing, say, a bike, an SUV, a sports car and a muscle car - based on sheer performance specs. (I often get a set of 3 SUV's generated for me as opponents in UG2's hard skill single race mode, and I honestly don't see the point - as I'm driving, say, a fully upgraded RX-7.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by theo View Post
With this thinking, any good idea could be retracted. It's like, well we could add more new things, but people might like it too much.
Precisely. I was being overly cynical, perhaps, but you can't deny that EA - with their recent NFS instalments - seem to avoid essential elements which go a long way towards enhancing & securing a racing game's longevity: modability, editable replays & a non-linear, user-customizable career mode. The question is whether they're simply ignorant or whether they do want us to forget about the previous instalment as soon as they've cooked up a 'replacement'.

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Old 01-15-2009   #21
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SUVs - Personally I think they are the most useless vehicles ever, I wouldn't even like to drive one in a game. Underground 2 had them, and there was no sucess.

Motorcyles - I love them, but having those in a NFS wouldn't work due to the already mentioned reasons. Leave them to Midnight Club.

Sport Trucks - Maybe they could work, some modifications are similar to those of cars and there are a lot that are pretty stylish too. I'm all for Australian Utes!

Sport Wagons - Just sweetness. Quite tasteful modifications can be achieved with these vehicles if the right parts and touches are added to them. A lot of them are pretty fast in factory form too.


I have already given up on NFS having just european super cars, that won't happen.

@OD211: Here's another video if you're interested in drifting bikes.
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Old 01-15-2009   #22
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i Would go with SUV's (Porsche Cayenne, Jeeps SRT, Hell Even a Land rover) Trucks as well (Ram SRT8, Lightning heck to the semi ricey Tundra, and the Holden Ute or whatever it's called) and Wagons as well (Audy RS4, Legacy wagon)

Bikes i am in for but what worries me is Pursuit and Bikes, 2 things that most time wind effing 1 or the other up, either they don't pursue bikes or Bikes are done in semi controlled places? but then you would not be able to enjoy the open world, not to mention every1 you would hit a car in dense traffic your due would fly allover the place, unless that is you decide to scrap the low T+ and go for a high T+ almost M+ game rating
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Old 03-10-2009   #23
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SUVs-Just sort of silly fun, but SUVs like the Chevy Trailblazer SS are actually pretty quick from what I hear.

Motocycles-Hmm I'm not a big fan, although i have a minibike and that'd be pretty awesome in NFS.

Sport Trucks- Chevy Silverado SS? yes please. maybe some El Caminos, 59 ford ranchero good stuff there.

Sport Wagons- I donno my mom's got an audi allroad (2003) It'd be cool to drive one of those in game.
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Old 03-14-2009   #24
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I'm amazed at how many people immediately dismiss SUVs(and to a lesser extent, trucks) as merely blingmobiles, ignoring the models deserving of inclusion, such as the Trailblazer SS(it was developed at the Nurburgring; that alone should guarantee it's addition, never mind the near 400 horse V8...), the Grand Cherokee SRT-8(Jeep couldn't let Chevy have all the fun, and it actually temporarily de-throned the Cayenne as world's quickest factory SUV) and of course, the Cayenne(say what you will, IT'S STILL A FRIGGIN' PORSCHE!).
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Old 03-14-2009   #25
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Quote:
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I'm amazed at how many people immediately dismiss SUVs(and to a lesser extent, trucks) as merely blingmobiles, ignoring the models deserving of inclusion, such as the Trailblazer SS(it was developed at the Nurburgring; that alone should guarantee it's addition, never mind the near 400 horse V8...), the Grand Cherokee SRT-8(Jeep couldn't let Chevy have all the fun, and it actually temporarily de-throned the Cayenne as world's quickest factory SUV) and of course, the Cayenne(say what you will, IT'S STILL A FRIGGIN' PORSCHE!).
I do not believe I've ever heard anybody address a Cayenne as a 'blingmobile'.

The Cadillac Escalade, Lincoln Navigator, and Hummer H2, though, most certainly are.
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Old 03-14-2009   #26
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SUVs - yeah, but restrict tuning
plus, if you tune the suspension they lose off-road capabilities
with cars like Cayenne you could go anywhere ane also go around corners real fast
plus it would be SO damn cool if I'd see a 30000GBP Boxster/Z4/SLK/Crossfire/370Z VS a Cayenne/X5/ML/Murano.
Motorcycles - a big fat NO. just no and that's it.
OPEN CARS TOO!

but...
all the tuning parts have to be existing automotive market parts (or based on them) - so you could convert a Cayenne to a TechArt Magnum or Gemballa Something, or a Mercedes E into a Brabus SV12 - or BMW M5 to Alpina B5 (less performance in the latter - but useful comfort in missions like longer distances cruising which i'd like in NFS).

and a character customizable as in another EA game - the sims (lol but cool) - this includes male/female choice - it allows OPEN TOP cars to be in the game. it would be cool. but the top has to be closed during police pursuits (magically goes up like damage in UC)
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Old 03-15-2009   #27
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Quote:
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I do not believe I've ever heard anybody address a Cayenne as a 'blingmobile'.

The Cadillac Escalade, Lincoln Navigator, and Hummer H2, though, most certainly are.
I would gladly welcome the Escalade, though... if they ever got around to making a "V" variant...
(hopefully, this is more likely to happen if the rumors prove true, and the next Escalade is moved to the Lambda platform[Buick Enclave/Chevy Traverse/GMC Acadia/Saturn Outlook], as I feel that Lambda's more car-like architecture lends itself more easily to the pursuit of fast...)
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Old 03-30-2009   #28
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I'm ok with SUVs and Wagons now bikes are a no no unless the cops have them too the same goes for SUVs and Wagons. Now the discontinued Dodge Magnum would be a cool wagon to have in NFS and SUVs like the Chevrolet Tahoe, Chevrolet Suburban, Dodge Durango, Ford Explorer, Ford Expedition/Expedition EL, GMC Yukon, GMC Yukon XL, Hummer H1, Hummer H2, and Hummer H3. In real life the cops also have bikes and SUVs if racers are giving these vehicles then also give them to the cops to even up the score and if a racer is in a car, suv, or bike they would also knock the officer off of his or her bike and the cops can do the same thing with racers too. However at the same time adding bikes in NFS would make it look like Road Rash which I think EA should revive that franchise if they want a game with racing and it involves bikes that should be the game to have bikes. I also have to say trucks are also a must for both the racers and the cops too.
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Old 04-08-2009   #29
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- SUV's: Yes, definitely. Models like BMW X3, Audi Q7 and Porsche Cayenne would be nice addition to the game. For those who say that SUV's suck at the corners, try powersliding. And whoever said that SUV's weren't success in NFSU2?!

- Motorcycles: HELL, NO!!! Bikes in NFS are just like huge boxy roof scoops on '69 Mach 1 Mustang - INTOLERABLE!

- Sport Trucks: Only if cops are involved. I would love to smash through roadblocks with Dodge Ram, and even Rhinos would have trouble bumping me off the road.

- Sport Wagons - Dunno. Would be good addition to NFSUC-type of game when you have to, say, transport stolen TV from location A to location B in n minutes without cops or angry owner's thugs stopping you.

And why the hell convertibles weren't mentioned as an option?!

Wait--I know! You cannot put roof scoops on them and make them sooo ugly... ahem... so cuuute!
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Old 04-08-2009   #30
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^Agreed on everything you say. Everything except estate cars. Audi RS6 competes with M5 and is only offered in an ESTATE/WAGON/COMBI version.

Think there should be an option of making race car tuning: Gallardo spoilers+bodykits borrowed from GT3 version?
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Old 04-08-2009   #31
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SUVs - I personally dont care for them that much. If one was in the game Id buy it and fix it up for the heck of it. Now if there was off road racing in it heck yeah Id get a SUV.

Motorcycles - As long as we have Ninjas! ZR-14s to be specific! True getting hit by cops would end the chase, but bikes are more agile and can squeeze into places a car couldnt fit, plus if a bike got on a trafficy freeway it could squeeze through it all and get away. But if there arnt any cops in the game ...

Sport Trucks - Dodge Ram SRT-10 with a V10 Viper engine? Chevy S-10 with a 350? Ford Lightning? And any other truck that smoke pretty much any import? ... hell yes! Trucks although they look kinda slow ... they arnt.

Sport Wagons - I dont care much for them but, what the heck, I like my options open.

Last edited by GreedyTurbo529; 04-08-2009 at 01:10 PM..
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Old 07-19-2009   #32
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Default Case Study #12 Vehicle Types

hmmm i mite see what i can pick up a hole cutter for as that will probably get me the cleanest hole do you reccomend any types or brand or will a standard high speed steel one do the job?

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Old 07-19-2009   #33
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SUV - Sounds cool like in Underground 2

Bikes - Tempting.....Could be like in Midnight Club

Sport Trucks - Hell Yeah!

Sport Wagons - Sounds Good
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Old 07-22-2009   #34
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SUV - Yeah well they'll be great for pursuits and ramming into things like the Rhino but I'm not sure they should add too many, maybe just a few.

Bikes - WTF?! No way I could never see bikes in a Need For Speed game. Well, come to think of it, they can go pretty fast, but they'll be horrible for pursuits.

Sport Trucks - I Maybe. I like the 2nd one but I don't think it'll be worth it. Maybe they can have a thing like class races and only trucks can race or something. I don't know but they wouldn't go very fast, leave those for Gran Turismo games.

Sport Wagons - Yes for sure. These can be a great addition to the Need For Speed series. I can see that BMW inthere. So sure these can be added.
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Old 07-28-2009   #35
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i just wonder who gives us the free_car marker then? i can't believe in cops going like: Dude, you are really pr0, heres da marker! go get another car and annoy us more in future!
it would be great if the "blacklist race for car thing" was TRUE, not like: you lose=just restart, you win=you get opponents car. bring back NFS 4 HIGH Stakes mode. racing for cars vs AI is fun. and could be fun online when you see someone else has a really nice looking car, if you can beat him then you deserve his car
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Old 07-28-2009   #36
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Uhm, great idea (in fact, it's MINE, you shameless thief!!!), wrong thread though. Try the appropriately titled 'Future Concepts' topic for general gameplay ideas.
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Old 09-06-2009   #37
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Data Compiled. Thread Closed.
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