Is the Lexus LFA ready for the supercar world?

[Bajan Shifter]

Well this is an article that is going to be posted up on our Barbadian motorsport website along with a 2(or 3) part podcast but we want to know from you,

Is the Lexus LFA ready for the supercar world?

Please share your views.

The article isn't on the site as yet but if you want to check it out you can go here.I will come back and update when the article is up.

[Linkin]

Looks Supra-ish.

[Bajan Shifter]

Originally Posted by Linkin

Looks Supra-ish.

We've gotten over that,do you have an opinion referring to the title?

[Zpectre]

No, because it's a ****ing Lexus, therefore it must be as boring as shit.

[ricersHA]

It's boring looking if you ask me

[nfslover101]

Not a fan of its looks, although it does look better then its original concept idea.

[Bajan Shifter]

Originally Posted by nfslover101

Not a fan of its looks, although it does look better then its original concept idea.

Actually,I think the concept idea and the production model have the same design.But what I want to know from you guys is if it has a chance in taking on the other supercars.

[Linkin]

At least make it a proper thread.



- 4.8-liter 72-degree V10 putting out 560 hp at 8,700 RPM (that's 116.5 hp/liter) and 354 lb.-ft. of torque at 6,800 RPM
- Redline: 9,000 RPM
- Titanium valves, connecting rods, forged aluminum pistons, dry sump lubrication and a titanium exhaust manifold
- Six-speed sequential gearbox
- Torsen limited slip differential
- 3,263 pounds with a 48/52 front-to-rear weight distribution
- Power-to-weight ratio of 5.8 pounds/hp
- 65 percent of the body is carbon fiber
- 20-inch BBS wheels wrapped in 265/35 ZR20 Bridgestone tires in front and 305/30 ZR20 in the rear.
- 0-62 MPH (100 km/h) in 3.7 seconds
- Top speed of 201.94 MPH
- Production limited to 500 units

Price is approximately $375,000.


What a sound!

[Killua]

I'm not too much of a fan of this car, atleast in design. The body in some places looks like if it was an unfinished job of fiber glass, like around the vents, and the tail lights are boring IMO. The V10 sounds good though, and it seems it's a good handling car.

Although, it's too expensive for the class it's in.

[Ricochet]

Well it looks better [and different] from any other Lexus. I certainly like it.

[3ni_2nr]

Thoughts: (in no particular order or relation)

1) V10? I want moar from it.
2) At least it doesn't look like a Corolla
3) I definitely can't argue about its capabilities
4) Expensive Toyota
5) Rear is wannabie Audi
6) Really sounds impressive.

But I'm a Toyota hater anyways...

[Ricochet]

This thing looks like a V8 or maybe even a V6, they seem to suit it well.

I can't understand how much moar you want from it when it's engine already seems big enough for it 0_0

[Zpectre]

Damn it, even Lexus has a sportscar now, I think I should email the guys in Bavaria to ask them WTF are they waiting for to come up with something.

[3ni_2nr]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

This thing looks like a V8 or maybe even a V6, they seem to suit it well.

I can't understand how much moar you want from it when it's engine already seems big enough for it 0_0

V10 doing 560hp. it could do better.

[Ricochet]

I think its one of the first high-end supercars made by Lexus, I mean c'mon, its Lexus! Give them a break!

[TenPoundBurrito]

It definitely looks better than the original concept, but it seems to have too much going on in the body with those scoops, wings, and strange angles. It's not a smooth, flowing shape like a Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Aston Martin.

I'm curious who its' competitors will be. Here in the United States, there are only a few Front-Engine, Rear-Wheel Drive coupes putting out that much power and costing around the same, and most of them are luxury-oriented rather than performance-oriented.

The Bentley Continental GT, Ferrari 612 Scaglietti, and Mercedes-Benz CL65 AMG are to big and heavy to be nimble enough to compete, but they're close in price, power, and offer more luxury. The Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1, Dodge Viper, and Nissan Skyline GT-R aren't luxurious enough to compete with a Lexus, but their mechanical specs are similar. The Aston Martin DBS and Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano are pretty close in performance and luxury, but they cost a lot more. Could it be that Lexus is looking for a sweet spot that nobody's in yet?

Also, I agree with Linkin - this could definitely be a Toyota Supra in the near future. Look at the opening for the radiator and the rounded roofline, which are very reminiscient of the last generation of the Supra. Round of a bunch of the angles, particularly in the lights, remove some of the high-tech and luxury equipment and those ugly scoops, and swap out the V-10 for a twin-turbo V-6 and you'd have a modern Supra Turbo, which would make an awesome competitor for the Nissan Skyline GT-R.

Also, with the less-complex Rear-Wheel Drive platform versus the Skyline's computer-controlled All-Wheel Drive, a cheaper naturally-aspirated or single-turbo Supra would be a good idea to compete with the Mustang GT, Camaro RS, and Genesis Coupe V-6 without stepping on the toes of the upcoming 4-Cylinder only Toyota FT-86.

[GT5]

I think it looks great, although the 2nd gen concept looks tons better. But no matter how you look at this car, $300k is too damn much. It makes no sense at all. Yes, it has front engine with RWD, but who gives a damn. Lexus took too much away from this car to make it seem like it came directly from it concept versions (Which look like they're worth WAY more). The car does look great, the performance is good for the car, but not the price, and the brand producing this is kinda like a WTF are ya'll trying to prove brand. I also think the design is very original; I don't see where it takes ideas from other cars due to the fact that it went through 3 design phases, but hey. Here's the ultimate question.......Can it play Crysis?

[Indigo]

It's got a nice ass.

But I won't pay $375k for a supercar with no pedigree and no track record. Sorry. Just can't do it. People could swallow one and a quarter million for a totally new supercar because the McLaren F1 GTR had won Le Mans. We've been hearing intermittent information since 2000 about this car, and it's not coming out until the early 2010s. We don't know what it truly will be capable of. So, in my view, it may be a really sweet car, but it's not worth $375,000. They should lop off the 3.

[TenPoundBurrito]

@Indigo - Apparently, the Lexus does have some racing experience. Lexus LFA prototypes placed first in class in the Nuburgring 4 Hour endurance race in 2008 and 2009. Other than that, though, it's basically untested in the racing world.

In 2009, one of the drivers was announced at the end of the race to be the CEO of Toyota, Akio Toyoda. Talk about hands-on oversight of your company! Now if only we could get Bob Lutz and William Ford to race in NASCAR.

[Bajan Shifter]

I'm not even sure if you guys are helping with this article.

@TenPoundBurrito
-The Mark 4 Supra was he last of its kind and Toyota clearly stated that they will not make another Supra just like how there is rumored speculation that the Evo X is the last production Evolution.

[Indigo]

Originally Posted by TenPoundBurrito

@Indigo - Apparently, the Lexus does have some racing experience. Lexus LFA prototypes placed first in class in the Nuburgring 4 Hour endurance race in 2008 and 2009. Other than that, though, it's basically untested in the racing world.

In 2009, one of the drivers was announced at the end of the race to be the CEO of Toyota, Akio Toyoda. Talk about hands-on oversight of your company! Now if only we could get Bob Lutz and William Ford to race in NASCAR.

Hi, Bob Lutz is out of a job and Alan Mulally is CEO of Ford.

It has no pedigree. Ferrari has pedigree. Lamborghini has pedigree. Chevrolet has pedigree. Porsche has pedigree. ToyoLexus has a brightly-colored ricebox in a shitty movie.

[Zpectre]

Originally Posted by Indigo

Chevrolet has pedigree.

Are you kidding? All they've always had is the Corvette. If you omitted BMW and Mercedes (mind you, both have more pedigree than Lambo!), you can't name Chevrolet either. In fact Toyota has more pedigree than Chevrolet since they were able to mount a Le Mans victory challenge in 1999 when BMW won, and compete in Formula One, none of which GM could ever dream of achieving.

Ford, on the other hand...

[GTR]

I agree on the looks. It looks weird. Just, weird. Way too many details here and there, most of which seem out of place. That wing, those oddly shaped headlights and that vent blocking your blind spot. I don't care if its 5 dollars or 5 million dollars, I won't buy something that looks like this.

4.8? Seriously? That's it? The sound doesn't have the grunt of an M5 or a Viper. Sounds very tuner-ish.

And 560hp is not nearly enough for it compete with anything. Might as well buy a CTS-V with the same amount of power.

What I do have to give credit to them for, though, is the technology they used. They've actually invented a new way to make the carbon fiber parts. It's incredible.

But overall, if I really wanted a luxury performance car, I'd much rather get a Mercedes SLR, or a Zonda (the original) or even a Spyker. At least I'd feel like I'm in something that's truly special. And if I want a fast Japanese car, I'd rather get a Nissan GT-R and do a makeover on it with some sleeker looking body panels and head lights. Then take one third of the money I've saved and turn it into a real monster.

[KF72]

Originally Posted by GTR

4.8? Seriously? That's it? The sound doesn't have the grunt of an M5 or a Viper. Sounds very tuner-ish.

Rice burner much?


It's very "meh" to me, nothing special, looks like an expensive IS-F in white.

[Zpectre]

Originally Posted by GTR

I agree on the looks. It looks weird. Just, weird. Way too many details here and there, most of which seem out of place. That wing, those oddly shaped headlights and that vent blocking your blind spot. I don't care if its 5 dollars or 5 million dollars, I won't buy something that looks like this.

Yeah it's not harmonic, though I like the front.

Originally Posted by GTR

4.8? Seriously? That's it? The sound doesn't have the grunt of an M5 or a Viper. Sounds very tuner-ish.

M5 has a five-litre engine...

The new McLaren seems to do just fine with a 3.8 engine, too.

Originally Posted by GTR

And 560hp is not nearly enough for it compete with anything. Might as well buy a CTS-V with the same amount of power.

Nissan GT-R = 480 bhp
BMW M6 = 507 bhp
Aston Martin DBS V12 = 510 bhp
Jaguar XK-R = 510 bhp
Audi R8 5.2 FSI = 525 bhp
Porsche 911 GT2 = 530 bhp
Ford GT = 550 bhp
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560/4 = 560 bhp
Ferrari 458 Italia = 570 bhp

As you can see, 560 bhp is more than enough, and also impressive for the size of this engine. I believe this Lexus will be a pig because of the added weight from luxury parts, but in terms of horsepower it's very much at home with the amount it has.

And the CTS-V... Not only it's in a different category, but it's also a GM... Meaning it will give you headaches. You get what you pay for. You choose to pay less, you get less quality.

Originally Posted by GTR

But overall, if I really wanted a luxury performance car, I'd much rather get a Mercedes SLR, or a Zonda (the original) or even a Spyker. At least I'd feel like I'm in something that's truly special. And if I want a fast Japanese car, I'd rather get a Nissan GT-R and do a makeover on it with some sleeker looking body panels and head lights. Then take one third of the money I've saved and turn it into a real monster.

Mercedes SLR, Zonda are no longer produced. Spyker would cost the same for less performance. Nissan GT-R wouldn't be as luxurious and still looks ugly.

Not that I like this car, but dismissing it as an unworthy competitor is going too far IMO. And it's cool that Toyota finally has another sportscar. The more the merrier.

[Sinatra]

Don't think this car should be seen as an option when it comes to supercars, seems more like a know-how demonstration, showing their customers Lexus can achieve more than simple road cars. Reminds me of VW with the Phaeton: Why do they think people would buy a VW when they could buy a BMW or a MB within the same price range? Maybe it wasn't about the sales at all, nor seems Lexus to be joining this restrict supercars’ market with this model.
IMO, this only serves the purpose of aggregating value to this brand, not to compete with much more consolidated brands available on the market nowadays.
But it’s only my opinion anyway.

[Sir Tristan]

It definitely IS ready. Look at the specs and the price, it's a great promotion item for Lexus. You Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini/Maserati/Aston Martin/Viper/Corvette/-loving snobs (including me) have to submit to this cars' competetiveness in the market.

[Zpectre]

Originally Posted by Sir Tristan

It definitely IS ready. Look at the specs and the price, it's a great promotion item for Lexus. You Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini/Maserati/Aston Martin/Viper/Corvette/-loving snobs (including me) have to submit to this cars' competetiveness in the market.

We will only see how competitive it is once we have some road tests. Specs only tell half the story. Even if it manages to beat everything, it still lacks the badge to become iconic. It's not like Lexus has enough of a history to think that by making only 500 of these they're creating a legend. There are far more exclusive cars which have been built in bigger quantities like the Carrera GT, and it may well be the case that not-as-exclusive cars like the R8 V10 (which is similar in mechanics and market positioning) get dangerously close to the LF-A's heels, which would be quite embarrassing to Lexus.

I agree that it does have potential. However, pretty much everything Lexus did here, BMW has already done 5 years ago... High-revving V10, carbon-fibre components to reduce weight, sequential gearbox...

[Indigo]

Originally Posted by Zpectre

Are you kidding? All they've always had is the Corvette. If you omitted BMW and Mercedes (mind you, both have more pedigree than Lambo!), you can't name Chevrolet either. In fact Toyota has more pedigree than Chevrolet since they were able to mount a Le Mans victory challenge in 1999 when BMW won, and compete in Formula One, none of which GM could ever dream of achieving.

Ford, on the other hand...

It's the same problem as the Nissan GT-R has. Sure, it's won shit, but it doesn't have a long history of exciting road cars. That's the key problem with Lexus' strategy, they think that just because it's got a laundry list of numbers, people will buy it. But as the GT-R demonstrated, that's not necessarily the case.

[Zpectre]

Originally Posted by Indigo

It's the same problem as the Nissan GT-R has. Sure, it's won shit, but it doesn't have a long history of exciting road cars. That's the key problem with Lexus' strategy, they think that just because it's got a laundry list of numbers, people will buy it. But as the GT-R demonstrated, that's not necessarily the case.

Toyota does have history in racing, but Lexus' only claim to fame are the Daytona Prototypes in the Rolex Grand-Am series.

Skyline was very successful in racing, though most of it is unknown in the Western world...

[_BLAHHEAD_]

Looks nice and sounds nice to me, and with only 500, enough hype from Toyota and a pretty decent specs', yes, I would classify it a supercar. I'm sure there would be 500 rich people willing to pay up $375000 for it.

It's funny how half of us is judging the car's brand's background instead of the car, just like what we do with everything else (like people, religion etc.)

[GTR]

Originally Posted by Zpectre

Yeah it's not harmonic, though I like the front.

Yeah and I like the roofline. The rest is meh...

M5 has a five-litre engine...

The new McLaren seems to do just fine with a 3.8 engine, too.

The more the merrier, no?

M5 is not as high revving, it's a bit more torquey I'd imagine. I think it sounds better. Nothing tops a Viper though.

I don't like how the McLaren sounds either. An engine shouldn't sound like a drill. Should sound like an engine.

Nissan GT-R = 480 bhp
BMW M6 = 507 bhp
Aston Martin DBS V12 = 510 bhp
Jaguar XK-R = 510 bhp
Audi R8 5.2 FSI = 525 bhp
Porsche 911 GT2 = 530 bhp
Ford GT = 550 bhp
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560/4 = 560 bhp
Ferrari 458 Italia = 570 bhp

I can't find the one that costs $400K. No seriously I dunno the prices on all of em.

As you can see, 560 bhp is more than enough, and also impressive for the size of this engine. I believe this Lexus will be a pig because of the added weight from luxury parts, but in terms of horsepower it's very much at home with the amount it has.

HP/liter means nothing. And no, it's not enough for that money.

And the CTS-V... Not only it's in a different category, but it's also a GM... Meaning it will give you headaches. You get what you pay for. You choose to pay less, you get less quality.

LOL. Right. Scrape a curb with that Lexus. Now THAT's a headache right there bro. Try getting those specially made carbon fiber panels repaired or replaced.

Supercars aren't expected to be reliable as much as sports sedans are. GM may not be the best in reliability but just the fact that the CTS-V is supposed to be used on a daily basis means it'll naturally go through more reliability tests.

Mercedes SLR, Zonda are no longer produced. Spyker would cost the same for less performance. Nissan GT-R wouldn't be as luxurious and still looks ugly.

True, but you can find some laying around. And I don't think it'd cost 300 grand to make a GT-R look good and have a luxurious interior. The biggest baddest projects cost what, half that?

Not that I like this car, but dismissing it as an unworthy competitor is going too far IMO. And it's cool that Toyota finally has another sportscar. The more the merrier.

Cost is an important factor when you're comparing. Sure, Toyota did such a miracle making a 4.8 V10 that makes 560hp. Sure, Toyota made the whole thing out of CF. But it fails to deliver at that cost, therefore loses the game.

However I do agree they're in the right direction. They'll eventually use some of this technology in their sports cars and this may in fact be a step towards a less boring Toyota.

[Indigo]

Nissan GT-R = 480 bhp--US$80,000-$120,000
BMW M6 = 507 bhp--US$90,000+
Aston Martin DBS V12 = 510 bhp--US$70,000?+
Jaguar XK-R = 510 bhp--US$80,000
Audi R8 5.2 FSI = 525 bhp--US$75,000+
Porsche 911 GT2 = 530 bhp--US$120,000+
Ford GT = 550 bhp--US$125,000 (when in production)
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560/4 = 560 bhp--US$110,000+
Ferrari 458 Italia = 570 bhp--US$unknown

This is only as best as I remember. I may have over or underestimated some of those. I know I got the GT right

But seriously. None of those even cost half of the Lexus, and they all have better pedigree. I'll put them in again and tell you their pedigree and where it's accepted

Nissan GT-R = 480 bhp--Over 40 years of racing in Asia and Europe. In Asia, known as a supremely awesome sports car.
BMW M6 = 507 bhp--BMW. That's all you need to know.
Aston Martin DBS V12 = 510 bhp--Part of the DB9, which goes back to the DB7, which goes back to the DB5, which goes back to James Bond. I mean, the DB4.
Jaguar XK-R = 510 bhp--Goes back to the predecessor XKR, which came from the XK8. Although the XK8 was a bit blah, the XKR was a good bit of fun. Relates directly back to the impressive XK-E, and therefore the XK140 and XK120.
Audi R8 5.2 FSI = 525 bhp--The Audi R8 of Le Mans fame. Also, it has Lamborghini underpinnings.
Porsche 911 GT2 = 530 bhp--Porsche 911. That is all.
Ford GT = 550 bhp--Although the GT is relatively new, it takes its image from the beastly sexy GT40 of years gone by.
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560/4 = 560 bhp--Lamborghini. 'Nuff said.
Ferrari 458 Italia = 570 bhp--Ferrari. That's all you need to know.

Fact: The LF-A has no such pedigree as these competitors who cost a fraction of the price. Some of these cars will also leave a production LF-A eating dust. The knowledge of what kind of car you have is sometimes more important than the numbers, though, for the same reason that someone who owns a Camaro or a Mustang can and should consider themselves more picky in their rides than a pimply kid in a Civic.

[Zpectre]

Here we go again...

Originally Posted by GTR

Yeah and I like the roofline. The rest is meh...
The more the merrier, no?

They must've had their reasons to go with 4.8 instead of 6.0.

Originally Posted by GTR

M5 is not as high revving, it's a bit more torquey I'd imagine. I think it sounds better. Nothing tops a Viper though.

M5 sounds the best, then Carrera GT, then Gallardo, then Viper.

Originally Posted by GTR

I don't like how the McLaren sounds either. An engine shouldn't sound like a drill. Should sound like an engine.

Shouldn't sound like a diesel tractor either like most American V8s.

Originally Posted by GTR

I can't find the one that costs $400K. No seriously I dunno the prices on all of em.

Then why people compare Corvette to everyone of those cars? It's much cheaper... And it shows.

Originally Posted by GTR

HP/liter means nothing. And no, it's not enough for that money.

Lotus Elise horsepower isn't enough for the money either. The money goes (or should go) somewhere else like the carbon-fibre chassis.

Originally Posted by GTR

LOL. Right. Scrape a curb with that Lexus. Now THAT's a headache right there bro. Try getting those specially made carbon fiber panels repaired or replaced.

I wasn't talking about service cost but overall quality. Any car gives you some sort of headache if you hit a curb with it.

As far as I'm concerned, only an idiot would do that to a car that costs that amount of money... Cristiano Ronaldo is, per definition, an idiot.

Originally Posted by GTR

Supercars aren't expected to be reliable as much as sports sedans are. GM may not be the best in reliability but just the fact that the CTS-V is supposed to be used on a daily basis means it'll naturally go through more reliability tests.

I would expect a $375,000 car goes through a similar level of testing than the CTS-V if not harder. It's an expensive car after all, and Lexus has a reputation for reliability they must live up to.

Originally Posted by GTR

True, but you can find some laying around. And I don't think it'd cost 300 grand to make a GT-R look good and have a luxurious interior. The biggest baddest projects cost what, half that?

Original Zonda is less powerful than the LF-A. SLR has dubious design (though I like it) and is much heavier, therefore the horsepower advantage is effectively negated. GT-R's ugliness is inherent to the design and aftermarket parts can only alleviate, not eliminate it.

Originally Posted by GTR

Cost is an important factor when you're comparing. Sure, Toyota did such a miracle making a 4.8 V10 that makes 560hp. Sure, Toyota made the whole thing out of CF. But it fails to deliver at that cost, therefore loses the game.

It hasn't even been tested by a serious magazine yet and you say it fails to deliver?

4.8 V10 with 560 bhp seems a miracle to Americans and their big 6.0 engines with only 430 bhp. Ferrari has an even smaller engine that produces 570 bhp.

Originally Posted by GTR

However I do agree they're in the right direction. They'll eventually use some of this technology in their sports cars and this may in fact be a step towards a less boring Toyota.

They're definitely not in the right direction. I applaud them for developing a capable sportscar, but they're also building only 500 of them and putting a hefty price tag on it, which, I agree, isn't justifiable because Lexus isn't a prestige brand. Everyone knows Lexus are just expensive Toyotas. You find more differences between an Audi and a VW than between a Lexus and a Toyota, and Audi has a long history as a prestige brand. The Ford GT which is much more iconic used to cost less than half of what they're asking for this Lexus.

It's overpriced, but this shouldn't be used as an argument to say it's a poor car.

[GTR]

You my friend, are what I call a good sport.

Originally Posted by Zpectre

They must've had their reasons to go with 4.8 instead of 6.0.

Perhaps. Still sounds like a drill though.

M5 sounds the best, then Carrera GT, then Gallardo, then Viper.

Whatever floats your boat man. I think the Viper sounds the meanest of all them.

Shouldn't sound like a diesel tractor either like most American V8s.

You either haven't heard an American V8 or haven't heard a diesel tractor. It's almost a standard in lot of movies and cartoons; the sound of an American V8 is used as a generic sound for "car engine". It could be a 2 cylinder, they could care less. That's the sound people associate with an engine. BOOYAH.

Then why people compare Corvette to everyone of those cars? It's much cheaper... And it shows.

I didn't say you can't compare it. They compare Corvette to all those cars and give points to the Corvette for being cheaper.

There is nothing particularly obvious about the Corvette being "cheap". To me, or rather, most of America, at least.

Lotus Elise horsepower isn't enough for the money either. The money goes (or should go) somewhere else like the carbon-fibre chassis.

Touche.

Here's the thing though. Is LFA as fast for 500hp as Elise is for 189hp? Just a thought.

I wasn't talking about service cost but overall quality. Any car gives you some sort of headache if you hit a curb with it.

As far as I'm concerned, only an idiot would do that to a car that costs that amount of money... Cristiano Ronaldo is, per definition, an idiot.

I would expect a $375,000 car goes through a similar level of testing than the CTS-V if not harder. It's an expensive car after all, and Lexus has a reputation for reliability they must live up to.

Sure any car would. But there's mild head aches, then they're big headaches.

As for reliability I still think the CTS-V would naturally go through more reliability tests. There's a big difference between making sure a car can take intense torture for a few hours, and making sure car can stand a slightly less torture for a period of 10 years. You get what I mean right.

Original Zonda is less powerful than the LF-A. SLR has dubious design (though I like it) and is much heavier, therefore the horsepower advantage is effectively negated. GT-R's ugliness is inherent to the design and aftermarket parts can only alleviate, not eliminate it.

LFA is almost as ugly as the GT-R. And, when you're talking a supercar with a lotta class, I think there are plenty of cars that do a better job.

It hasn't even been tested by a serious magazine yet and you say it fails to deliver?

At that price point yes. It should be really good to justify it, and I kind of doubt that it would be that good.

4.8 V10 with 560 bhp seems a miracle to Americans and their big 6.0 engines with only 430 bhp. Ferrari has an even smaller engine that produces 570 bhp.

It's not a miracle. Americans make big engines because they can. The design is different, therefore allows for larger engines. American cars (GM and Dodge in particular) use OHV which makes up for a smaller lighter engine. DOHC and OHC don't have this advantage, therefore they need to extract as much as they can from a smaller engine. Did you know LS7 weights less than a Porsche Carrera 4 I6? It's true.

They're definitely not in the right direction. I applaud them for developing a capable sportscar, but they're also building only 500 of them and putting a hefty price tag on it, which, I agree, isn't justifiable because Lexus isn't a prestige brand. Everyone knows Lexus are just expensive Toyotas. You find more differences between an Audi and a VW than between a Lexus and a Toyota, and Audi has a long history as a prestige brand. The Ford GT which is much more iconic used to cost less than half of what they're asking for this Lexus.

It's overpriced, but this shouldn't be used as an argument to say it's a poor car.

I mean right direction as in incorporating and advancing their technology on this proving ground. True, the marketing is a total mess, but isn't it your point that it's a good car if you don't take looks and price into account? I would pretty much agree with that.

It's more of a ratio thing. It all comes down to how much bang for the buck a car is. Why do you think Corvette C6 is so popular? Because it can do 300km/h while costing the same as most brand new normal cars.

I think Ford GT was also a limited production model and they were sold at $150,000. It's quite a lot less than the LFA.

[Zpectre]

Originally Posted by GTR

I didn't say you can't compare it. They compare Corvette to all those cars and give points to the Corvette for being cheaper.

There is nothing particularly obvious about the Corvette being "cheap". To me, or rather, most of America, at least.

First time I played NFS3 I was surprised with how bland the Corvette interior was. It's also said it's not very easy to live with one as a daily driver. People say the opposite from Porsche.

Originally Posted by GTR

Touche.

Here's the thing though. Is LFA as fast for 500hp as Elise is for 189hp? Just a thought.

Way faster.

Originally Posted by GTR

Sure any car would. But there's mild head aches, then they're big headaches.

As for reliability I still think the CTS-V would naturally go through more reliability tests. There's a big difference between making sure a car can take intense torture for a few hours, and making sure car can stand a slightly less torture for a period of 10 years. You get what I mean right.

This is pure speculation so we can't really reach a conclusion on it.

Originally Posted by GTR

LFA is almost as ugly as the GT-R. And, when you're talking a supercar with a lotta class, I think there are plenty of cars that do a better job.

Even a $40,000 Mustang GT500 in some counties could do a better job IMO.

Originally Posted by GTR

At that price point yes. It should be really good to justify it, and I kind of doubt that it would be that good.

Can't disagree on this since, even though the car is currently untested, I doubt Lexus has the ability to make something truly outstanding.

Originally Posted by GTR

It's not a miracle. Americans make big engines because they can. The design is different, therefore allows for larger engines. American cars (GM and Dodge in particular) use OHV which makes up for a smaller lighter engine. DOHC and OHC don't have this advantage, therefore they need to extract as much as they can from a smaller engine. Did you know LS7 weights less than a Porsche Carrera 4 I6? It's true.

Size and configuration are almost as important as weight. Smaller helps improve overall design. The Viper is a brutal monster but suffers a lot from having such a big engine with too much low-end torque. The Porsche may have a heavier engine but that weight is in the rear which turns the car into a devil off the line.

Originally Posted by GTR

I mean right direction as in incorporating and advancing their technology on this proving ground. True, the marketing is a total mess, but isn't it your point that it's a good car if you don't take looks and price into account? I would pretty much agree with that.

Being good has nothing to do with price. Cost-effectivity has.

Originally Posted by GTR

It's more of a ratio thing. It all comes down to how much bang for the buck a car is. Why do you think Corvette C6 is so popular? Because it can do 300km/h while costing the same as most brand new normal cars.

And that's it. The extra refinement which exists in other cars isn't there. Save for the ZR1. Well it's all a matter of taste really, if you're in for a rough ride the Corvette is the best car, it's cheap, fast, sounds good and doesn't have some of the unnecessary frivolities present in other cars. I prefer a car with lots of frivolities.

More than this, I won't give you because they'll lock this thread for going off-topic.

[Indigo]

It's perfectly on topic. The topic is whether or not the LF-A is (going to be) a decent supercar.

[GTR]

Originally Posted by Zpectre

First time I played NFS3 I was surprised with how bland the Corvette interior was. It's also said it's not very easy to live with one as a daily driver. People say the opposite from Porsche.

Would you believe me if I said I thought the exact opposite? I loved Corvette in that game. Especially with the automatic...it'd chirp from 3rd to 4th

I found the interior to be more stylish than most of the other cars. It seemed like a car with a lot of features. Chrome in some places was a nice touch. The Porsche (in NFSHS) seemed like a big board with some gauges on it. This of course changed with the 996.

Way faster.

A Typical 189hp car can do 0-60 in about 8, 9 seconds. Lotus takes half as long. What I meant was, is LFA equally as impressive for it's horsepower? i.e. is it that much faster to 60 than other supercars with that amount of power? Cars like Lamborghini Murcielago (the original) or Porsche 911?

Even a $40,000 Mustang GT500 in some counties could do a better job IMO.

Good point. It's a very location specific thing.

Size and configuration are almost as important as weight. Smaller helps improve overall design. The Viper is a brutal monster but suffers a lot from having such a big engine with too much low-end torque. The Porsche may have a heavier engine but that weight is in the rear which turns the car into a devil off the line.

If by smaller you mean overall volume, OHV is smaller than a OHC with the same displacement, because the cams are not located on the top but rather buried inside the engine. If you mean fine tuning...then you got a point. It's not easy to get the perfect fine tune for OHV (far as I know) which makes up for a lot of low end torque, and compromises a little bit of max torque at high rpms.

Then again there are record holding cars that got it right despite the so-called "outdated" engine designs, like the Ultima GTR and SSC Aero TT, both of which use 6.2 liter Chevy engines.

Being good has nothing to do with price. Cost-effectivity has.

+1

And that's it. The extra refinement which exists in other cars isn't there. Save for the ZR1. Well it's all a matter of taste really, if you're in for a rough ride the Corvette is the best car, it's cheap, fast, sounds good and doesn't have some of the unnecessary frivolities present in other cars. I prefer a car with lots of frivolities.

ZR1 has the magnetic suspension setup, which is actually very comfortable.

More than this, I won't give you because they'll lock this thread for going off-topic.

Well, we're on topic, but yeah it IS getting a little long...

[Ricochet]

Keep the discussion going guys, I'm finding it useful

[Zpectre]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

Keep the discussion going guys, I'm finding it useful

No! It takes too much energy to argue with GTR. He nearly made me lose an exam today.

Maybe I'll post more once I get back home.